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Sunny GTi VS Golf GTi 3 VS Tipo 16V


Fórum O článcích Sunny GTi VS Golf GTi 3 VS Tipo 16V




2mato  
Mato
2010-09-14 12:22:44

super clanok a porovnanie v tabulke je perfect !

http://www.members.shaw.c...ar/april1992/article.html

Golf War

The VW Golf was King GTi not so long ago, but the third generation model returns to the class it created to face its stiffest test ever. Can it overthrow the superb Fiat Tipo 16V, the premier fast hatch, and see off the storming new Nissan Sunny GTi? John Barker reports.

Having invented the GTi with the Golf back in the 1970s, VW ruled the class for a decade. The Golf remained the definitive fast hatch until the late 1980s when `imitators’ stopped flattering and started making the running. Now the third generation GTi is here and its task is not simply to better the Mk2 but re-establish VW as the leader of the pack. To succeed it will have to despatch the superb Fiat Tipo 16V, a formidable adversary that fought and won the fast hatch crown in our recent eight-hatch test (PC, February 1992).

Intent on doing the same is the new Nissan Sunny GTi, which looks just like its capable and stimulating rally-bred sister, the turbocharged 4wd GTi-R. Power isn’t all, but the Nissan seems better equipped than the VW to overthrow the 148bhp Fiat. It’s true that Tipo’s closest rivals in our recent test were the least powerful, but none had less than 130bhp. The Nissan weighs in with 143bhp from its normally aspirated 2-litre twin-cam but the Golf gives just 115bhp from its eight-valve 2-litre.

If you’re thinking that the 16-valve Golf would be a better choice we’d agree, but that model is still some months away and, anyhow, the 8V is a direct competitor on price: the five-door here costs £14,426 (the three-door is exactly £14,000), compared with £13,949 for the Tipo and £14,950 for the Sunny.

The third generation Golf continues the evolutionary theme set by the Mk2, using developments of the running gear and chassis of its predecessor and becoming more rounded, bigger and heavier. Photographs don’t do it justice; on the move, light and shade playing on its subtle lines, it looks like a saloon version of the Corrado coupe. By comparison, the Sunny, which shares a very similar rear end, looks unfinished, a less refined design. But, boy, does it move.

At the track the Nissan proved itself the quickest of fast hatches, catapulting to 60mph in just 7.2 seconds and on to the more representative quarter-mile in a class-leading 15.6 seconds. The Golf falls the wrong side of the times set by the Tipo which, recording 7.9 and 16.3 seconds for the same disciplines, is a mid to low field runner in the class. The Golf does no better than 9.7 and 17.5 seconds, times that a Rover Metro GTi can beat.

The Golf’s lack of muscle is evident in the top speed and flexibility tests, too. Flat out, the VW recorded 117mph, 10mph down on the Fiat and a division down on the 130mph Nissan. In the all-important in-gear tests, which indicate overtaking ability, the Golf is similarly lacklustre; 30-50mph in fourth takes 8.3 seconds, a second longer than the Tipo and a full two seconds longer than the storming Sunny. It’s the same story in fifth, the Sunny despatching the 50-70mph increment in 9.3 seconds, ahead of the Tipo on 10.1 (whose time is amongst the slowest in the class), with the Golf some way behind on 11.9.

Tipo's smooth, powerful and vocal 16-valver oozes character.

The Tipo proves that performance forms only a part of a champion hatch’s portfolio but, unlike the Fiat, the Golf doesn’t make gains elsewhere to offset its relative sluggishness. There isn’t a fast hatch engine made outside Italy with as much character as the Tipo’s 2-litre twin-cam. The balancer shaft ‘four’ delivers its urge with an intoxicating exhaust rasp and flat-four Alfa-esque thrum. By comparison the Golf’s motor simply slogs away to the 6400rpm limiter in undistinguished repmobile fashion. There’s more character to the Nissan’s twin-cam, which impresses with its remarkably strong and consistent delivery right up to 7500rpm, but it’s an engine you find yourself admiring more than enjoying.

The VW’s gearing doesn’t help its cause, there being a large jump in the ratios between second and third. On a sinuous B road, second is often too low and third too high. It’s an error that the other makers have avoided, though the Fiat’s bulk and slightly peaky power delivery allow the lighter Nissan to stretch out a lead when a series of corners demands instant response.

In terms of shift quality all three cars gearboxes are positive but none is perfect. The VW’s much modified change action is lighter, less bumpy but a little loose, and is occasionally reluctant to slot into second in a hurry. The Nissan’s is tighter and crisper but finding fifth can be troublesome, while the Fiat’s is similarly awkward at times, although it’s allied to easily the best weighted, most positive clutch action.

There’s no pay-off at the fuel pumps for the poor-performing Golf, the Tipo just pipping it with 27.3mpg (Golf 27.2, Sunny 26.4). All three cars are catalyst equipped.

What made the Golf GTi such a delight in previous incarnations was the unflappable poise and precision of its chassis. The Mk3 ought to be even better, its familiar suspension set-up of MacPherson struts, wishbones and anti-roll bar at the front and struts, torsion beam and anti- roll bar at the rear benefiting from the passive rear-steer suspension bushing of the Passat and Corrado. These bushes allow the rear axle to shift slightly under cornering loads, pointing the rear wheels in the same direction as the fronts for greater stability and neater cornering.

`The Tipo feels like the Golf ought to: firmly sprung and superbly damped, yet very progressive'

This Mk3 Golf certainly feels different to previous GTis, its power-assisted rack and pinion steering being much lighter and its chassis giving less of the impression that the front end is doing all the work. There’s grip aplenty from the 195/50 VR15 Continental Super Contacts and, in the dry at least, hustling the Golf through a series of fast kinks shows the chassis to be agile and unnervous. However, the steering is too light and denuded of feedback compared with the Tipo’s, although wet grip is good. Damping that is just a little soft and wallowy further erodes the driver’s confidence when pressing on.

The Tipo feels like the Golf ought to: firmly sprung and superbly damped, decisive yet very progressive. Perhaps the Golf would feel like this if it were fitted with the optional ‘Plus’ suspension pack. Quite why VW is marketing a sports handling kit for its GTi is curious in itself, but it seems it might address most of our criticisms, promising firmer, more direct steering, ‘matched spring damper rates’ and gas-filled dampers at the rear.

Tipo's fine handling show up deficiencies of the other two.

It takes a fine handler such as the Tipo to show up the deficiencies in other cars, and in this company the Sunny, too, pales in comparison. Its steering simply isn’t positive enough around the straight ahead; it feels as if there is too much lateral compliance at the front. This impression is reinforced by the weave that sets in when full acceleration is used in the lower gears, and the Sunny’s slightly inaccurate feel through turns at speed. It’s more firmly sprung than the Golf, to the detriment of low speed comfort, but displays good composure when you want it. Overall, neither Sunny nor Golf turn in a dynamic performance to trouble the Tipo or the three cars that filled the runners up places in our eight car test: the Citroen ZX Volcane, Renault 19 16V and Peugeot 309 GTi.

The Golf, Sunny and Tipo share similar braking systems with ventilated discs at the front, solid discs astern, and all work superbly through well-weighted, progressive pedals. However, the Nissan justifies its higher basic price by having antilock as standard.

Tipo's excellent optional Recaro seats give superb support.

Assessing interiors, the Golf at last starts to gain ground on the other pair. The care and refinement evident in VW’s exterior is carried through to the cabin which follows the ‘organic’ theme popular with many manufacturers at present. The dashboard and door casings are a blend of smooth curves, and there’s a sense of style lacking in the others. The Tipo’s facia employs plenty of plastic, though the quality and finish is a class up from typical Japanese standards.

GTi pointers are few in all three, the Tipo being most up-front with its drilled metal throttle pedal, red-banded Momo leather steering wheel and extensive range of gauges with red needles. The Sunny has a chunky, height-adjustable leather-trimmed wheel, too, but the Golf makes do with an ordinary-looking and fixed three-spoke affair.

Although the Tipo’s church-pew driving position feels a little odd at first, it works as well as any once you’re used to it, the excellent (optional) Recaro seats keeping the driver firmly in place. More tuning opportunities are offered to the Sunny driver, the cushion of its more subtle sports seats offering fore and aft height adjustment, but the Golf’s firm seats, and the Tipo’s, are slightly more supportive.

Tipo's styling is a little unhappy, but interior space good.

Least space is provided by the Sunny which, to compound the problem for those with families, is only available with three doors. The take-it-or-leave-it five-door Tipo is much more spacious, and the Golf runs it as close as any other rival. Like the Sunny, however, the Golf’s reversing vision is seriously impaired by the lack of a rear quarter light such as the Tipo has.

Although the Tipos characterful engine is encouragingly vocal when extended, at a cruise it is remarkably quiet. This, combined with very low levels of wind and road noise and an almost total absence of bump-thump, gives the Fiat a decisive win in the refinement stakes. In the Golf, wind noise is much more noticeable and, as in the Sunny, tyre roar filters through to the occupants.

You’ll have guessed by now that neither Golf nor Sunny has the talent to oust the Tipo from its throne. The Sunny is quick enough and well built but it leaves no lasting impression, save for the consistent and strong delivery of its twin-cam engine. This feels every bit as lusty and responsive as the venerable Vauxhall 2-litre 16-valver, but like the Astra GSi, though to a lessor degree, the Sunny’s chassis fails to exploit this asset.

More disappointing is the Mk3 Golf’s performance. If it were badged as a 2.0 GL, it would all add up: the ordinary performance, the consistent but hardly sparkling power delivery, and the agreeable but slightly woolly handling. As a GTi, and one from the company that invented the genre, the latest Golf simply doesn’t convince. It’s certainly stylish, inside and out, even though those fog and driving lamps set into the front apron are just blanks.

Although the prospect of putting your own money into a Fiat rather than a Volkswagen holds less appeal, if you’re talking fast hatches the Tipo is streets ahead. The 8V Golf will never appeal to those who seek performance first, and until its chassis is sharpened up (perhaps by fitting the ‘Plus’ suspension pack as standard) it won’t justify its GTi tag.

2mato  
Mato
2010-09-14 12:59:37

Podla nich sa na Tipo nic nechyta, Sunny GTi nema na podvozok Tipa a je hlucnejsie aj s golfom /podvozok aj aero/ ...glf je slaby ma moc lahke riadenie a je makky... zeby to tipo bola taka sleha? sa mi nezda

2010-09-14 15:20:32

Tech dobovych testu jsem cetl vic, ale to Tipo mi prijde snad nejhorsi ze vsech. To auto nema nic, co by stalo za zminku.. strasne zpracovani, skareda karoserie, desna technika,... proste ital z 90.let, nic horsiho si nedokazu predstavit.

2mato  
Mato
2010-09-14 19:25:44

Vsak to, mam podobny nazor...mozno ked to bolo nove to fungovalo a drzalo po kope, ale mali spravit test po 150tis km kde sunny by bol akurat v zabehu a tipo by sa uz rozpadavalo...alebo zeby ten test po 250tis ? Jedine co sa mu za novoty mohlo darit bolo to odhlucnenie a nejaky charakter ci FUN drive ale zeby sa vyrovnal podvozku sunny tomu sa mi moc nechce verit...urcite to bolo desne makke...btw na podvozku tipa boli aj prve alfy 146 este s boxermi, tie ``kazdy`` /italy fan/ ospevuje pre jazd vlastnosti

2010-09-14 23:28:39

Nekde mam dobovy test z Autocaru UK, kde byl Sunny a dalsi. Kdyz to najdu, tak to tu dam.

2012-10-17 02:06:35

vim ze je to death tema..jen me zajima proc porovnavaj SUNNY , tipo co maji cca 145 koni s G3 GTI 8V co ma 120?

Kdyz uz chci srovnavat tak dam k temhle dvoum autum G3 GTI 16V co ma cca stejnej vykon (150koni)

2012-10-17 12:07:33

Asi proto, že je 16V cenově jinde oproti uvedené konkurenci!

2mato  
Mato
2012-10-17 12:37:30

Tak nejak, pritom ta 2.0 8V je pekne vagny motor s uplne anti sport charakteristikou...

2012-10-17 12:40:20

Vw udelalo nekdy nejaky auto pro ridice ? Ve vsem co jsem jel tak nebylo total pro ridice. Vse otupely ,preposilovany a slo ze zatacky po cumaku. Na jine veci nektere VW muzou fungovat dobre(sharan rodine auto detska sedacka integrovana v zadnich ...) ,ale sport auto neumeli.

2012-10-17 12:52:03

Tak nějak jsem taky nepochopil jejich auta - GTI Golf 1.8T - motor OK, jinak mi přišlo, že jedu v obýváku na nákup a teď po zkušenosti Golf VR6, ani toto mě ničím nenadchlo - neobratné, v přímce bída - jistě, někdo namítne, že je to 4x4 a v zimě s tím bude zábava, ale zábavu 4x4 mi poskytne i jakákoliv jiná 4x4...

Teď ty auta nechci hanit, ale ničím mě to nepřesvědčilo o tom, že bych k tomu měl mít nějakou náklonost...

2012-10-17 13:35:08

Moje vw už mě taky sere ale rozhodně bych neříkal slova jako obyvak , že jde po čumáku atp..atp...

V jakém 1.8T si přesně jel? v recarach si moc v obýváku nepripadam .. v zatáčkách mě nestíhá n15 almera gti a na rovince je to teda slabší... jedeme spolu a já dám almere tak délku čumáku...

k tomu článku..mě nejde do hlavy proč srovnavaj sunny s g3.. did je to přeci úplně jiné auto..jinak veliké,těžké atp..chápal bych srovnávat almera vs golf...podobná kašle výkon podobná hmotnost..nejde mi to do hlavy

2mato  
Mato
2012-10-17 13:35:31

A to sa nebavme o audi... tie vadne sport pakety - kostitras a to je ten cely sport, inac to iste ako seria a utrpenie na rozbitych cestach... je jedno ci slo o A4 alebo A6 tragedy... nedotacave chlievy ..vlastne to sedi, to iste co VW len s lepsimi plastikmi v interieri a 4 kruhmi

ja som tiez este nesiel v ziadnom VW kt. by ma niecim nadchol pokial ide o jazdu... golfy 2 3 4 ten isty podvozok len kasna ina to je uz co povedat

Coster Almeru nemam, ale golf VS primera to je neporovnatelne hlavne ked tlacis maximalne na pilu... a viem co vravim po 4kovy golf je to slabota, zachrania jedine poriadne siroke a dobre gumy ... len tak schvalne uved aky rozmer pneu mala almera Gti a aky mas ty na golfe ..

2012-10-17 14:23:08

Proboha proc tady chodis prudit? G3 je primy konkurent Sunny, nevim co tady pises o uplne jinych autech...

To, ze ti Almera nestiha bude asi ridicem, co si kdo dovoli nebo v pneu, ale machrovat, ze mas auto v primce o delku rychlejsi, kdyz mas turbo? VW nema zadne auto, ktere by vubec mohlo aspon vzdalene konkurovat Sunny, Almere nebo Primere. Jestli ano, privez ho na okruh/okresku a muzem se bavit o rychlem aute.

PS: Priste si to precti poradne, nez napises, proc tam nebyl 16V.

"If you’re thinking that the 16-valve Golf would be a better choice we’d agree, but that model is still some months away and, anyhow, the 8V is a direct competitor on price: the five-door here costs £14,426 (the three-door is exactly £14,000), compared with £13,949 for the Tipo and £14,950 for the Sunny."

2012-10-17 14:26:01

Jo už pár G4,G3 skončilo málem ve škarpě když jsem tlačil před mým nárazníkem a oni se mi snažili ujet. Nakonec si pokaždé prohlídli i zadní nárazník . . Pokaždé mě fascinuje jak je ten golf přetíženej na na vnější kolo v zatáčče jako by se přez něj chtěl překlopit . Neřešim přímku tam mi v dnešní ujede dost i suvecek ,ale v zatackach je toho v prdeli mnoho včetně RS octy.


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